How low can you lower your car befor you see negative camber???

[zion_97]

Ok guys, I have a question for you. Like many of you know I have this Q45 right and want to lower it, but I dont want alot of negative camber.
I know that there are certain mods you can do to adjust the camber however I was curious to know when lowering your vehicle at what height lower do you start
to see - camber and when does it get savere. I know about air and coilovers but I was curios on the camber issue. I know this guy who has a Q and he is using Tein S Tech springs that l
lowers it 2" and it looks real nice.. as nice as it looks he really does not need to go any lower to justify his VIP Style..his car sits real nice..It does not look at two inches lower that there is much negative camber issues. Now I was wanting coilovers to go 3-4" lower and was not sure if that would make it alot more negative.Hopefully one of you guys knows about this and can give my some input. I thank you in advance. Here is my car and TOp photo is now and bottom photo is where I would want to see it with as much -* camber as I would allow. could even be a little more possitve but I think It would look more VIP this way..

[Dark Anghell]

so sorry this is a bit unclear and I'm a bit hungover, but you want to know how low you can go without having much affect on your camber? If that's the case then 3-4" will definately have a huge impact on camber. Mine is not that low (3" at most) and my camber in the rear is pretty bad. I think that in most applications you can lower the car by 1-1.5" and the camber wil still be OK.

[Gao Jian]

why do you want to avoid negative camber so much almost every car on here that we say has nice stance and fitment is running about -5 or more degrees of camber.

[antbo]

uh oh, i see this thread is gonna get crazy.

anyhow your starting to sound like CL or nicoclub :). but i understand were you come from though. who wants to keep buying tires. i personally dont care. i pay to play :). i have people talk to me on the road telling me the fitment looks good. i guess camber is the only way to fit VERY aggresive offsets to get that VIP look.

[VIPete]

NO CAMBER = NO VIP

[firelizard]

NO CAMBER = NO VIP

Works fine for EXE though.
http://www.jcp-joblood.com/photo/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_3682

[uncle_el]

I did not say no camber just when does the camber get extreme from lowering your ride


"extreme" is up to personal interpretation.


And thats why I was trying to figure out at what height do you start to see - camber...

I want to know more or less at what inch does negative camber take effect.


your question seems to assume that this is a universal question, rather than car specific...

you can see negative camber at stock height on some vehicles... so at 0 inches, you can see negative camber.* the car firelizard posted indeed has negative camber, though it's definitely not as extreme as others.

and since you fear the killing of your tires, perhaps lowering your car is not for you. or perhaps we should just get into the debate of camber versus toe, and which affects tires more...



I've also been working on making a simple diagram that shows people exactly why negative camber alone is not truly that bad for tire wear... so far one of my best analogies is to think of your car's wheel as something like one of these ab exercise devices (don't mind the girl)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2002/abroller2.jpg

So to put it simply, if you hold the wheel perfectly upright and straight, it is very easy to push back and forth. Now imagine tilting the top edge a few degrees over to one side (negative camber), you will still be able to roll it back and forth pretty easily. Now, with the wheel still tilted along the vertical axis, move one hand a little bit in front of the other, so that you tilt it on the horizontal axis, and try to roll it. The difficulty you experience is the effect of toe (either in or out). So imagine your car basically having to drag your tire along.. that's the true killer of tires.




Toe alignment has the greatest impact on tire wear. If both front tires show heavy shoulder wear on either the inside or outside edges, check toe alignment. Radial tires, especially on lighter vehicles, tend to develop shoulder wear when toe is out of specifications. The tires may also have feather wear across the face of the tread. When the front tires are toed out, the shoulder wear will be on the inside edges. If they are toed in, you’ll see more wear on the outside shoulders. Underlying causes include worn tie rod ends or a bent steering arm.

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf110230.htm

synopsis: you have negative camber at stock height.

[Dark Anghell]

Also for handling it is better to have some camber. Like someone mentioned before even OEM height cars will have camber (look at BMW M series). The camber will be affected even if you lower the car 1/16"...not by a whole lot, but it will still be affected. So far after driving for 4 or 5 months my rears show no signs of wear. Keep you allignment dialed in, and you will be good.

[garaget]

Even some cars come standard with negative camber for better handling.

[firelizard]

I'd like to add that the average well adjusted Vip car with moderate camber (noticeable but not "daylight under half the tire") doesn't shred tires like a drift machine, you'll just have some more pronounced wear on one side of the tire, no big deal. Driving sanely will keep your tires fresh long enough.