Not happy with my current coilovers

[LXU55]

Hi every one.

I’ve got a set of Racing Logics in my series 1 LS400, 20kg front springs and 13kg rear springs, with the height down as low as I can go (around 50mm from the rails to the ground). www.racing-logic.com

I opted for these as some of the top ranking drift cars are now using them over here (Australia) and they came highly recommended from drivers both race and street cars.

My problem is, they feel extremely soft for a competition coilover with a ridiculous spring rate, they bottom out and the top “A” looking component is actually hitting the strut tower. My car still rolls quite bad, and understeers like a pig, which I expected due to the rates I’m running, admittedly I have the rear sway bar disconnect as well as the links were too long when I have the struts down as low as they can go.

Is there anything I can do to correct the problems? I ideally don’t wont to sell the struts as they owe me around $1800aus, changing spring rates and other possible items that I should change to help fix this I’m more then happy to buy how ever.

Has anyone had any similar problems with coilovers in there LS400? I know it will never be racecar like handling, but I’ve never has this issues in the past with other cars.

- Josh

This is whats hitting the tower
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/Nismo_Boy/LXU55/Hitting.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/Nismo_Boy/LXU55/RacingLogicLXU55007.jpg

[Dominik]

Well, to correct the bottoming out, i suggest raising the car... Well, thats the 'logical' thing to do! (not the best looking though)

Other options will get progressively more expensive. What is the dampening set to? That has just as big an effect as spring rates, although those rates sound like they should be incredibly hard - for a Cedric 10kg/mm & 8kg/mm is considered good (also a 1700kg car)

There is a place in QLD (The Shockabsorber reconditioners) that rebuild coilovers and shocks to your liking. I remember talking to them about shortening my OEM airbag struts on one of my previous cars. That would stop you bottoming out, and allow you to cut your springs to go even lower.

They can also increase the dampening rates so the suspension will be rock hard. Speaking of which i saw an Aristo in one of my mags the other night with something like 26kg/mm and 22kg/mm springs, thats seriously hard...

Oh, and the Japanese guys cut holes in their strut tower to allow the upper control arm to go higher and not hit anything. the nice setups weld a little box over the hole so it doesnt look so ugly

[PUREVIL]

ahhh here is a question for ya?? Why do you have the spring sitting that low on the sleeve??? your spring rate is s*** when coiled down like that. There if you spent the correct amount of cash there is a seprate adjustment for height. It usually consist of adjusting the actual housing of the whole coilover lower into the tube that its mounted in. To me it looks like your blowing the s*** out of your strut and will soon have no sus.. WOW.

On the other hand i did check out the website and to me it looks like there isnt that much adjustment to work with in the first place.

[Dominik]

The adjustment you are talking about is only available on 'full-tap' coilovers where the entire shock is threaded. This allows you to lower the strut at the same time as lowering the car.

This is only available on the more expensive coilovers, probably well above what he paid.

Before that was available, and on all other coilovers, you have to adjust height independent of shock height...

[LXU55]

The adjustment you are talking about is only available on 'full-tap' coilovers where the entire shock is threaded. This allows you to lower the strut at the same time as lowering the car.

This is only available on the more expensive coilovers, probably well above what he paid.

Before that was available, and on all other coilovers, you have to adjust height independent of shock height...


I have the "full tap" coilovers, adjust the height without touching the spring tension. I have the spring tension wound up as tight as I can,so I can have the strut base up higher, thus to get the car lower. The damper is on the stiffest setting as well

[LXU55]

ahhh here is a question for ya?? Why do you have the spring sitting that low on the sleeve??? your spring rate is s*** when coiled down like that. There if you spent the correct amount of cash there is a seprate adjustment for height. It usually consist of adjusting the actual housing of the whole coilover lower into the tube that its mounted in. To me it looks like your blowing the s*** out of your strut and will soon have no sus.. WOW.

On the other hand i did check out the website and to me it looks like there isnt that much adjustment to work with in the first place.



As I posted above, my coilovers are seprate, like what your talking about.

[garaget]

I hope you didn't pay more than 1k USD cause these are pretty much Ksport D2 rebrands. Parts made in China and Assembled in Taiwan or China.

It also looks like you have no travel or play from your spring perch setting.

[LXU55]

I paid something like $1800AUD, I know they are just a china item, but they are also in the top ranking drift cars in the Australian series, hence giving them a go. I’ve had Skyline’s, Silvia’s are other numerous cars and I honestly couldn’t see the point in running the big name Japanese coilovers in a LEXUS!

I called Racing Logic head office, and they said I should compress the springs and wind the spring tension up more.

Opinions?

*Note* I pulled down the rubber boot, and it looks like there is roughly around 2 inch’s of travel, which when measured at that top bolt that’s hitting my strut tower there is less then 2 inch’s of space, hence why its hitting I guess.

[Dominik]

Hence why the low guys cut holes in their strut tower to give room for the upper arm

I honestly couldn’t see the point in running the big name Japanese coilovers in a LEXUS!

I guess it depends on what you want to do with the car! Sounds like you are trying to drift the car....

As you can see from their application list, Lexus's have the stiffest springrates by a long shot, probably due to different suspension design (more leverage or something?). Its quite possible that while this brand makes good suspension in 8kg/mm & 6kg/mm required for Silvias and Civics, their dampening rates are not optimised for the high springrates required in a Lexus?

[LXU55]

As you can see from their application list, Lexus's have the stiffest springrates by a long shot, probably due to different suspension design (more leverage or something?). Its quite possible that while this brand makes good suspension in 8kg/mm & 6kg/mm required for Silvias and Civics, their dampening rates are not optimised for the high springrates required in a Lexus?


Well that’s what I had thought, so I asked when I called the head office, and they obviously told me that was incorrect and they there shouldn’t be a issue.. Clearly no bias there.

Oh well, I might just cut some holes cut in the tower tops and be done with it.

[Dominik]

I should note that this will most likely be a very big defect here in Australia, what with the strut tower being kinda pivotal in the structure of your car ;D

What about some custom (stiffer) springs from somewhere like AllSprings/K-mac/whiteline etc?

[hahajoey]

is this the same quality to be found in
D2 Racing Sports, KSport and those other offbrand
coilovers that offer all kinds of adjustments, and applications for almost
everycar? >:(

man.. thanks for posting up.. i hope this thread helps other LS owners
as a buyers beware..

i wish i knew the answer to your question, just wait though, someone
more knowledgable will come on and tell you what to do i hope.

[DXJP]

Post a pic of your car at drive height. Im sure thats illeagle there to so cutting the top out will only be one more defect.

What I have done is cut the spindle and shortened it so it didnt bottom out. But then again I live in japan and we have no such rules.

You can keep the upper and lower A arms but just shorten it under the upper ball joint. You will need to re alighn the toe and also when you go that freekin low you are running a ton of camber. you can space out the upper to bring some of the camber out of it.

What size tires are you running also. 17" and that low will cause alot of it to. Get up to some 19" and reset your ride height.

By the way almost all Japanese coils are manufactured in Taiwan or atleast the parts are and assebled in Japan. Hell I know of at least 15 companeys that have the full manufacturing done there and China and they slap on a made in japan sticker here after it clears customs. Thats becouse inporting automotive parts has little or no Tax and tearif.

[jzz30tt]

ahhh here is a question for ya?? Why do you have the spring sitting that low on the sleeve??? your spring rate is s*** when coiled down like that. There if you spent the correct amount of cash there is a seprate adjustment for height. It usually consist of adjusting the actual housing of the whole coilover lower into the tube that its mounted in. To me it looks like your blowing the s*** out of your strut and will soon have no sus.. WOW.

On the other hand i did check out the website and to me it looks like there isnt that much adjustment to work with in the first place.



Shut the hell up if you don't know what you're talking about....which you obviously don't.

[Phucanese]

the spring rates are so high because the LS is such a heavy car.
if you put those rates on a light car like a civic, itll feel like the suspension is welded.

so make the car understeer less, try stiffening the rear shocks a bit.
if there is no more adjustment, get new springs made at different rates.

and if you do that, make the rears a little closser to the front rates, that should help.
if you can get new springs made, see if you could get the springs made shorter.
thatll allow you to play more with the stroke of the shocks.
this will give you less stroke, and your UCA might not hit your strut tower?

[Dominik]

I am aware that the LS is a heavy car, but the recommended spring rates for an LS is 24.8/9.8
Compare that to a 95-01 E class merc (280 and up), which is only a little smaller: 8.0/8.5
Or 5 Series Bmw which has 10.0/7.2

Its quite possible they sent you the wrong springs. But i also notice that you say 20/13... The fronts on yours are not as stiff as they recommend...

[jtanoyo1]

No offense, but the D2 stickers you see plastered all over the big shot drift cars and race cars have absolutely NOTHING TO DO with the D2 coilovers. The D2 coilovers are cheap Taiwanese/Chinese made product. They are just copying the name and using the photos of the D2 racing cars, completely fooling many people. My friend's bimmer bottomed out so many times on his D2 coilovers even though the dealer told him that his spring rate is as stiff as a "race car". You really get what you pay for.

[hahajoey]

i've always been scared about that whole D2, Ksport deal..
My concern is, I dont know if they put the same amount of R&D
into it.. you know?

But some fuckers.. u know who they are.. love to buy shit, even if it
sucks and don't work right, but still tell everyone it's the best..

Dude, people(the honda boys) are saying that D2 is better than OMNI POWER
which they rate higher than tein.

Thats just what I heard, I dunno how true it is, or how true the statement is...
I just think it's shady.. Im glad everyone's having a discussion about this..

[firelizard]

Wow, and here I thought D2s were good...thanks for the heads up, I'll know now to avoid them..
These are the ones you're talking about?
http://www.andysautosport.com/images/detailed_product/suspension/coilovers/d2_coilovers.jpg

[LXU55]

Dominik:

I’m thinking about getting my spring rates tested, as I believe they sent the wrong ones. We’ll see what rate shows up, funny how they sold me a lower rate then whats listed on their site though..

hahajoey:

Yeap, unfortunately as everyone else said, you get what you pay for. All those cheaper brands are much the same, although the Racing Logics came highly recommended, next time I’ll know.

DXJP:

Photo attached below, the rails are roughly around 55mm off the ground. I’m running a set of 18inch rims that are 8 or 9 inch wide with 235/40 tires. I used to have a set of 20x10.5/20x9 with 285/30 and 265/30 tires however are opting to go to a aggressive - offset in a 18 or 19 as I had the guards flared.

Phucanese:

That had crossed my mind, but I need a good set of spring compressors as I already did that as much as I could with the spanners.

Lesion learnt here, even though our cars aren’t race cars/tack bandits, don’t skimp on quality as it’ll just end up costing more* :buck2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/Nismo_Boy/LXU55/LXU55Lips021.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/Nismo_Boy/LXU55/LXU55Lips022.jpg

[Gseventhree]

Honestly .. it seems like there is just not enough damping capability( the dampers dont go stiff enough. .). . the spring rates are fine.. as long as the damper can control it..* Which, if its bouncy and bottoning out, your damper cannot. . bottom line.. you gotta get rid of them. .
For coilover ONLY setups, the way I build cars is, the lower you go.. the stiffer you HAVE to go.. because.. doesn't matter what kind of coilovers you have full length adjust or not. . you WILL bottom something. . whether it be the tire in the wheelwell.. the upper control arm in the fender. . the toe link on the subframe. .bump stop . .. etc..* So the only defense you have against bottoming is to make it stiffer, to LESSEN the chance of it bottoming. . This can obviously only be done to a certain extent . . the car will become unsafe/undrivable after a certain point. . but you'd be surprised how low and stiff you can run on the street wtih the proper setup. . .. .


Or you can just get air. .



G

[LXU55]

Hahah, I wont be getting air. What are some quailty coilovers for the LS400?

[Dominik]

Not sure how they compare to your current coilovers, but JIC seems to be the most popular coilovers with the VIP crowd over there. Their range goes from a simple height adjustment only SF-1 (should be under 1k delivered, secondhand - rebuild all 4 for under $700), to the full-tap, height/rebound adjustable FLT-A2 or something like that... Not sure how much for them.

I had a set of SF-1s on the Cima; it weighed around 1800kg and the suspension still felt rock-hard (not sure what the springrates were). Admittedly i didnt ride it very low because it had a very low bumper... My main criteria with the coilovers was that they keep the kit from scraping, which they did, even when thrown hard around a corner

Will have another set of SF-1s on the Cedric in a couple of months (damn seamail), cost me $630 delivered (need rebuild, but look new)

[uncle_el]

Hahah, I wont be getting air. What are some quailty coilovers for the LS400?


jic seem to be the only ones still readily available, at least in north america. *i'd imagine that their may be more possiblities for you in australia. *wald, fabulous, and junction produce may make some, but i'm not sure if they're still in production.

[Phucanese]

Honestly .. it seems like there is just not enough damping capability( the dampers dont go stiff enough. .). . the spring rates are fine.. as long as the damper can control it.. Which, if its bouncy and bottoning out, your damper cannot. . bottom line.. you gotta get rid of them. .
For coilover ONLY setups, the way I build cars is, the lower you go.. the stiffer you HAVE to go.. because.. doesn't matter what kind of coilovers you have full length adjust or not. . you WILL bottom something. . whether it be the tire in the wheelwell.. the upper control arm in the fender. . the toe link on the subframe. .bump stop . .. etc.. So the only defense you have against bottoming is to make it stiffer, to LESSEN the chance of it bottoming. . This can obviously only be done to a certain extent . . the car will become unsafe/undrivable after a certain point. . but you'd be surprised how low and stiff you can run on the street wtih the proper setup. . .. .


Or you can just get air. .

true, i totally agree.

but just to correct something, dampers dont stiffen up your car at all.
the adjustable ones just control how fast or slow they compress to dampen a bump.

slower compression rate feels stiffer. and since they are slower at compressing,
your car bottoms out less often.

[Brandicus]

jic seem to be the only ones still readily available, at least in north america. i'd imagine that their may be more possiblities for you in australia. wald, fabulous, and junction produce may make some, but i'm not sure if they're still in production.


thats not good news at all... :-\ makes me want to look at an air setup more seriously...

sorry to be off topic, gl with the coilovers LXU55

[One Ton VIP]

About Taiwanese coilovers... not all susp components made in Taiwan are bad. In fact, many are good. BUT, there's MORE that are crap because, as always, the person/company commissioning the manufacturer to produce the parts just wants them to be cheap in price, not high in quality. Oh yah, so when you see a company that sells coilover susps for lots of different applications, and they all use adjustable bottom brackets, and they tout how many levels of adjustments they have... like 30+ etc... that just basically means that they're making pretty much the same damper body for all their applications, from a Civic to a Celsior, and the huge range of adjustment is for you to hope to find the smaller range within that that actually works for your particular car. Not the best approach, but for most layperson, that's AWESOME! And of course they'll notice that it's a huge improvement over the raggedy, worn out, decade-old suspension that they're replacing... but then again, anything would be at that point.
Notching LS strut towers: you notch them and box them... cut a slit in the strut towers, and then make a sheetmetal box and weld in place. that gives the uca clearance to go up past the strut tower, but even before getting to that point I'd be more worried about making sure the ball joints are operating in a position that doesn't induce binding, and that other things aren't going to interfere first

[DXJP]

About Taiwanese coilovers... not all susp components made in Taiwan are bad. In fact, many are good. BUT, there's MORE that are crap because, as always, the person/company commissioning the manufacturer to produce the parts just wants them to be cheap in price, not high in quality. Oh yah, so when you see a company that sells coilover susps for lots of different applications, and they all use adjustable bottom brackets, and they tout how many levels of adjustments they have... like 30+ etc... that just basically means that they're making pretty much the same damper body for all their applications, from a Civic to a Celsior, and the huge range of adjustment is for you to hope to find the smaller range within that that actually works for your particular car. Not the best approach, but for most layperson, that's AWESOME! And of course they'll notice that it's a huge improvement over the raggedy, worn out, decade-old suspension that they're replacing... but then again, anything would be at that point.
Notching LS strut towers: you notch them and box them... cut a slit in the strut towers, and then make a sheetmetal box and weld in place. that gives the uca clearance to go up past the strut tower, but even before getting to that point I'd be more worried about making sure the ball joints are operating in a position that doesn't induce binding, and that other things aren't going to interfere first


HERE HERE some one with plenty of knowlage. You hit it right on the head.

[One Ton VIP]

And a good pic here.... from another thread:
http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/500/533.jpg
note the box on the strut tower top