Why shouldn't illegal immigrants be deported?

[TLontheDL]

I didn't make this thread to say, "Illegal immigrants SHOULD be deported." I just want to hear what you alls stand point on the topic is. For those of you not from the states and haven't heard about this yet, our president, George W. Bush, is thinking of passing a bill to deport illegal immigrants in America.

Lets keep it clean guys. Discuss

[manila_boy]

for those who are still illegal-LAZINESS!!!

for those who made them legal to stay here-good job ur hard working people!

that's just me, i know in some situations it's really hard to be legalized to stay here-but there's always a way to do it! i don't mean to offened anyone.

discuss more, maybe there could be or we could find more ways to make this situation fair for everybody ::)

[irax]

My dad is Iranian, he came here during the Iran-Contra affair.... he had to do hard work and fill out a lot of BS papers to come here. Why cant they do what he did?

[firelizard]

I think it depends on the case.
Immigrant coming to the US running from the law = deport him/her
Immigrant coming to the US to find a job and escape the war torn ruins of his or her country = let them stay.

[irax]

I think it should be more like this


Immigrant coming to the US running from the law = deport him/her
Immigrant coming to the US to find a job and escape the war torn ruins of his or her country = let them stay.
Immigrant coming to the US thrugh illegal channels = death
Immigrant coming to the US thrugh the legal channels = get to live

[shoez]

its funny, im doing a project in my civics class on this topic. Im all for making America a melting pot, but the illegal immigrant problem is getting out of hand. I recently read somewhere that there is no minority group in california anymore, largely due to the issue of people sneaking in through our southern border.

[irax]

No there is a minority group in CA... its the legal immagrents :2funny:

[JustAPhase]

Honestly, Im all for it. I believe that Illegal Immigrants are a burden on this society.

[Dark Anghell]

I have to disagree...they are not a burden at all. Illegal immigrants can't apply for welfare, social security or any of the government supported programs, so we are not paying to these people through taxes or when something goes wrong. They work in places that we normally would never work at and at wage levels that are just rediculously low.

Now on with the deporting topic...US allready provides aid to 3rd world countries in latin america, asia, etc. Now let's imagine if we send all illegal immigrants back to their countries. There will be more people in those countries that need aid, so more expenses for our gov't on that part. Also, US government will spend billions finding these illegal immigrants here in US. I personally don't feel like paying for that, especially when other things should be fixed first.

We just need to wait until these latin countries develop their economies and the wage levels bein to rise and th epoverty levels will drop. I bet that many illegal immigrans will go back to their countries of origin once these changes occur. because lte's face it, I don't think they really like living in America, but that's what they have to do in order to survive and provide money for their families. What's their expense? American people descriminating against them, gov't blaming them for every thing that goes wrong, and in many cases being apart from their families, their native country and native language.

This is my take on the subject after 2 years of international economics.

[Pagong]

. They work in places that we normally would never work at and at wage levels that are just rediculously low.


This is all the answer you need.

Nobody in the upper class America will do any of these jobs at any given time, especially if they find out how much they make.


But to the illegal immigrants that just crosses over and turns into: gang members, a criminal....those are the ones you want to deport.

[irax]

You *say these things like its not supposed to be like that. When you travel to other countrys you are going to need a guid or something to help you go around. When you choose to live in another country you need to know the language and laws. You know its illegal to overload a vehicle? to have more occupants then it was built for right?

Let me ask you something Dark Anghell... what part of the society do you live in? are you white/black/asian/hispanic? *are you upper/middle/lower class? do you do back breaking labor? or ware a suit and tie?

I live in a lower middle class neighbor hood. I grew up in a lower class poor neighborhood. I have had back breaking jobs, and now I ware a suit and tie. Telling me that they are not a burdon to our society is an out right and blatant lie. Well... in california it is anyways.... Because they get free education, free health care, they dont pay taxes, they dont pay social-security.Community college rates of nearly quadrippled in the past 4 years alone. Grant it, its still WAYYY cheaper then a university. What other country does this for illegal immagrants? What other country goes out of there way to help people? We have to draw the line some where. Make it easyer for them to become legal is what I am all for. Making it so they get better treatment then citizens I am tottaly against.

[uncle_el]

this country was founded by illegal immigrants... people running from england, displacing the native americans...

now that others want to do the same...

but i digress.


You say these things like its not supposed to be like that. When you travel to other countrys you are going to need a guid or something to help you go around. When you choose to live in another country you need to know the language and laws. You know its illegal to overload a vehicle? to have more occupants then it was built for right?

Let me ask you something Dark Anghell... what part of the society do you live in? are you white/black/asian/hispanic? are you upper/middle/lower class? do you do back breaking labor? or ware a suit and tie?

I live in a lower middle class neighbor hood. I grew up in a lower class poor neighborhood. I have had back breaking jobs, and now I ware a suit and tie. Telling me that they are not a burdon to our society is an out right and blatant lie. Well... in california it is anyways....

i don't know anyone i grew up with that wants to be a janitor at my hospital.
i don't know anyone i grew up with that wants to work in the strawberry fields off the 101.
or the orange groves
or bus tables at the local diner
etc. etc. etc.

illegal immigrants aren't taking the jobs that people want. well, let me rephrase, illegal immigrants aren't taking the jobs of anyone that i know or grew up with. oftentimes, these illegal immigrants are taking jobs that people here legally don't want in the first place.


Because they get free education,


public education up through secondary school is free for all people regardless of income. whether your at the poverty level, "middle america", or wealthy, or somewhere in between all of there.



free health care,


not entirely true. many people pay out of pocket for health care, whether legal or illegal. many people can't afford healthcare, whether or illegal. healthcare in and of itself is expensive for everyone (one day in the icu with no labs or tests ordered, no food, no medicaiton is 3k). but i digress...


they dont pay taxes,


i guess you don't consider paying sales tax as paying taxes. people at the poverty level (of which many illegal immigrants are a part of) pay a disproportionate amount of their income to sales tax. add to that, being at the poverty level, they would actually earn an income tax refund. but seeing as how many don't have a social security number, and thus don't pay federal income tax, they also don't take from it.


they dont pay social-security


the only people that get social security benefits are people with social security numbers that paid into social security when working a job.
the only people that get medicare are people with social security numbers that paid into social security when working a job.

in other words, if you don't pay social security on the front end, you don't get social security benefits on the backend.


Community college rates of nearly quadrippled in the past 4 years alone. Grant it, its still WAYYY cheaper then a university


i fail to see where community college rates quadrupling has anything to do with illegal immigrants. the cost of "higher education" has increased drastically. many parents today, whether legal or illegal, find it much easier financially to send a child to community college for a few years, and then transfer to a 4 year university. of course, many people don't get a college degree period, but that's neither here nor there.


illegal immigrants are in many ways the backbone of our society. they're helping to build our houses/condos/apartments/office buildings/hospitals... they're helping to keep our homes/offices/restraunts clean... they're helping to take care of our children... they're helping to grow our produce/cattle/other food prodcuts... in many ways we wouldn't be able to function without them.

[Dark Anghell]

You *say these things like its not supposed to be like that. When you travel to other countrys you are going to need a guid or something to help you go around. When you choose to live in another country you need to know the language and laws. You know its illegal to overload a vehicle? to have more occupants then it was built for right?

Let me ask you something Dark Anghell... what part of the society do you live in? are you white/black/asian/hispanic? *are you upper/middle/lower class? do you do back breaking labor? or ware a suit and tie?

I live in a lower middle class neighbor hood. I grew up in a lower class poor neighborhood. I have had back breaking jobs, and now I ware a suit and tie. Telling me that they are not a burdon to our society is an out right and blatant lie. Well... in california it is anyways.... Because they get free education, free health care, they dont pay taxes, they dont pay social-security.Community college rates of nearly quadrippled in the past 4 years alone. Grant it, its still WAYYY cheaper then a university. What other country does this for illegal immagrants? What other country goes out of there way to help people? We have to draw the line some where. Make it easyer for them to become legal is what I am all for. Making it so they get better treatment then citizens I am tottaly against.


Me...I'm white living in the middle class neighborhood, and I've been working my ass off since I was 15 or 16 years old. Instead of playing foodball for my school I was sitting at McDonalds drive through, or moving huge meat boxes from the basement to the main floor. Now enough about me...

In order to recieve free health care, you need to recieve soime type of aid that covers it (health insurance, madicare, medicaid, etc.). In order to recieve that aid they REQUIRE a social security number...NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WILL HAVE SS#. So even if they tried, they can't get that aid. They also can't get any white collar jobs, because once again they don't have SS#. So the only thing they have left is working at farms, construction, etc. and they get paid as little at $50 for 12 hours of work. I don't think any American person would work for that little.

School...sure they might attend schools, but college education is on the rise not because illegal immigrants are going to college. Partially because they can barely pay for food and housing...let alone pay for tuition. Tuition raises because of inflation which is roughly 3-6% a year, it is also because professors constantly want more money, security guards want more money, utilities companies want more money, etc. It's a long chain of people/companies that raise thir rates on an annual basis...hence thereason for increasing tuition.

They pay taxes by buying food, clothing, cars, going to the movies, restaurants, etc. They don't get anything in return.

What other country has a problem with illegal immigrants? Ummm China would be one, european countries as well. Any time you have a country with a strong economy, and another right next to it with a weak one, you will have illegal immigrants crossing the border.

Why does US go out of it's way? Partially because it has screwed up economies of many nations, because it sticks it's nose into everything and then feels guilty about it, and out of good-will.

Making them legal citizens won't do any good either, becaus ethen they can join unions, etc. and we will have to pay more money to them...as bad as it sounds we need illegal immigrants to keep our economy going and keep some small businesses afloat.

[Caoboy]

if illegal immigrants are so pissed off about this whole deportation issue, i dont think protesting and parading down streets with mexican flags and running around yelling "Viva La Mexico!" is going to bring about the right thing. If they love their country so much, then why not go back there? If they want to be an American Citizen then they need to be more American. You can have pride in your native country, but when it comes to protesting and parading about the streets yelling your native country phrases, dont be ashamed when things dont go your way.

[irax]

Oohh man I wish I had the time to nick pick every rebuttle but the thing is, there is hospitals here in San Diego that accept illegal immagrents for free, by education i mean they get free tuition to community college(thus raising the tuition). And $50 for 12 hours of work? thats about 4 bucks an hour... which is what you get at a minimum wage job after taxes. They dont pay income tax or SS but reip benifits of both. Those streets you drive on? yeah thats upkeeped by taxes, those stop lights, taxes, police? taxes, fire-department? taxes, parks and rest stops? ohh yeah thats funded by taxes too. My brother inlaw WAS an illegal immagrent. He used to make about 35 bucks a day working on a farm and then he started mowing lawns and doing yardwork and making upto 75 bucks a day was not uncommon. I make about 96 bucks a day before income taxes but after taxes(about $75) which isnt bad, but with the cost of living its not all that good(a few G's just above poverty).

It's true that America was founded by immergrants and that as a foundation of our society we need people at these jobs. We need people at every level of our society regardless of race,creed or sexual oreintation(sp?). My problem is that its not that hard to become a legal citizen(unless your middle eastern at this moment) so why dont they go thrugh the propper channels? How can we accept such an open border policy on our southern boarder when they have soilders with automatic machine guns at their southern boarder? How can we be picky on who to let in, when they can go a few miles away and hop a "fence" to get in? You might not see the other issues, if you dont live near the border or in a border state. There are soo menythings wrong with the way it is right now, and letting it be OK is NOT ok.

[uncle_el]

Oohh man I wish I had the time to nick pick every rebuttle but the thing is, there is hospitals here in San Diego that accept illegal immagrents for free


you're going off of things you've heard, rather than things you've experienced. as a physician in so cal, i might know a little bit more than you about this area.

anyone can be seen at a hospital for no charge. come through the er, and it's part of the emtala (go here: http://www.emtala.com/) law/act. everyone's seen for free, as all charges for care are charged after the fact. whether or not you choose to pay, whether or not your insurance company chooses to pay is another issue. again, all patients are accepted for free. a financial counselor/officer may ask you to pay a copay (if you have insurance) up front, but you're under no obligation to pay it. and you can't be turned away for inability to pay anyway (again, part of emtala; and in general a good ethical decision).

personally, as a physician, i could care less whether or not you pay when you come to the hospital, as that's not my concern, nor should it be. my concern is what brought you in, and can i fix it.


by education i mean they get free tuition to community college(thus raising the tuition).


community colleges charge a fee for admissions, and a fee per class hour. there isn't a "tuition", as the charges are sort of pay as you go- the more classes you take, the more it costs, the less classes you take, the less it costs.

this is unlike universities which charge a flat tuition free- regardless of the amount of classes you take, the cost is the same per semester.

so, explain this "free tuition" at a community college concept. because, as i understand it, there is not tuition at a community college in the first place.



They dont pay income tax or SS but reip benifits of both.


apparently you failed to read what i wrote above:

the only people that get social security benefits are people with social security numbers that paid into social security when working a job.
the only people that get medicare are people with social security numbers that paid into social security when working a job.

in other words, if you don't pay social security on the front end, you don't get social security benefits on the backend.


i'll concede on the income tax (see below).


Those streets you drive on? yeah thats upkeeped by taxes, those stop lights, taxes, police? taxes, fire-department? taxes, parks and rest stops? ohh yeah thats funded by taxes too.


local sales tax, property tax (paid for either through owning a home, or your landlord calculates that into your rent) pay for local streets, local police/fire, and local parks. so, illegal immigrants do pay both of these, and thus help pay for it just as much.
national parks and interstate highways (including the rest stops) are paid for by federa and state dollars, so i guess you win there, as federal dollars are taken from federal income tax, and state dollars for highways are taken from state income tax.

[hahajoey]

those are a lot of good points, you've shown me a few things
i didn't see before.. but the way i see it... bottom line:

If you're breaking the law, why shouldn't you be punished?


i mean, you can't roll with a, well it's ok, cause of this/that.
does that mean if i'm hungry, have no money, it's ok to steal,
because i have no money? it's still illegal, and i will still be punished.
they are here illegally, literally, they're called ILLEGALS.

they don't pay uncle sam, but yet they drive on uncle sam's roads.
they don't pay uncle sam, but yet they use public parks, public libraries..
all things that us tax payers "BOUGHT", and they use for free.

im not trying to offend anyone, im just voicing my opinion..
but i'll tell you what, this is a touchy subject, i bet it can stir up
feelings and stuff. sorry if i offended anyone, i respect everyone's opinion.

ps: im not looking at it with just the.. oh "those mexican's" view, when i
think illegal, im talking about anyone from anywhere in the world..

[firelizard]

I agree mostly with you Joey but many cases of illegal immigration are cases of desperation, running away from an oppressive country, so there needs to be some slack in the system

[manila_boy]

But to the illegal immigrants that just crosses over and turns into: gang members, a criminal....those are the ones you want to deport.



...i hear u bro. :coolsmiley:

[Caoboy]

if you go into a hospital, they cannot turn you away until you are in stable condition. meaning they have to treat you and make sure you are ok. thats the rule. uncle_el, is a Doctor. free tuition is granted from the state. minimum wage is 7.25 an hour. taxes take an average of 10 percent. so thats say 73 cents, which would be a grand total of 6.52, PLUS, working for minimum wage, you only can work 8 hours before making over time, which is either 1.5 times your rate of pay, or double time depending on where you work. THEY DONT GET SOCIAL SECURITY BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER! If you are talking about welfare, they have to had worked at a place then had to have been fired, and have to again had a social security number, OR a legal alien resident card number to be eligible for unemployement/government welfare. (By the way, it is immigrant.)

[TLontheDL]

hah: you pretty much summed up my reason for being against it. I am in between on this subject actually:

FOR- I am partially for deporting illegal immigrants. Why? Simply because they knew LONG time ago that to be legal, you have to go through papers and documents. Its not like this is new to them. the illegal immigrants are now on a rampage/stressed b/c there was no "warning" that they should soon do paper work or be deported. Like I said, this isn't new to them and they knew this all along. My parents are just as a minority as the hispanics. My parents have probably been here less years than most of the illegal immigrants and have gone through paperwork and such. My parents came here empty handed and started at the bottom and worked their way up the ladder. The illegal immigrants have that capability but some are just here to cause us tax payers to pay for their unpaid emergency room visits, crime committed, overfilling school classrooms for the LEGAL immigrants, and social welfare programs. Of course they pay some tax but not as much as legal immigrants. Bottom line- I really don't think some should get a free pass for not respecting U.S. immigration laws and coming here the legal way.

AGAINST- I am partially against it b/c there are some who are very VERY hard working. A lot of the mexican illegal immigrants are very faithful and work so hard to provide money for their families back home in Mexico. Of course they do work that most people wouldn't do but if about 12 million of them were to be deported, some of the legal immigrants will NOW do it. You can't just simply send back 12M people back to their countries like that.. its too difficult and the economy will go down. it will stop in the produce, hotel, constructions of roads/homes/stores/buildings, restaurants, landscaping industries to name a few. I have a friend who owns a restaurant that I help out sometimes and he has a couple mexicans who work for him. They barely speak english but they are so damn cool, for real! They don't steal from the restaurant, they are caring (cooking and shair their home made mexican food), they work hard, and volunteer to stay late to clean up. I tip my hat to the hard working ones that are dedicated in their low wage job but keep in mind that 1 buck here is a lot to them in mexico.

[stankubrick]

those are a lot of good points, you've shown me a few things
i didn't see before.. but the way i see it... bottom line:

If you're breaking the law, why shouldn't you be punished?




I agree, otherwise there would be no order, but I think it's a copout to simplify the issue. The issue then becomes: does the punishment fit the crime? For some, being deported may as well be a death sentence. If an illegal immigrant has something to contribute, why make it so hard for them? Why make them out into villians?

[irax]

I agree, otherwise there would be no order, but I think it's a copout to simplify the issue. The issue then becomes: does the punishment fit the crime? For some, being deported may as well be a death sentence. If an illegal immigrant has something to contribute, why make it so hard for them? Why make them out into villians?



because during the 50's and 60's i forget why, but they start only allow percentages of people from other parts of the world come in legaly. If they want to work here they can get a working visa, if they want goto school they can get a student visa, if they want to start a business they can get licenses for that and apply for citizenship. The media wants you to think its just cherry pickers and janitors. They try so hard to make it a race issue. It's not, but they want you think it is. But thats because the popular perception of an "Illegal" is that they are Mexican. Nope thats just the majority of them. But Illegal citizens are also your computer techs, your cab drivers, your gas station attendent, your salon stylest, your bus boy/waitress/waitor/prepchef/chef/cook/bellman. They are alot more then just takers of undesireable jobs. They are drug dealers, they are mobsters, gangsters, pimps, *****s. My best friend from highschool was here illegaly from PI. My friends aunt is illegaly here from 'nam. My cusins in pasadena are here illegaly from the middle east(only due to they were about to get there citizen ship right befor sept. 11th happend). What do all those people have in coman? THEY ARE TRYING TO BECOME LEGAL CITIZENS! Majority of these Illegals are not trying to become American, they are just trying to make money to better their lives in another country.

I think we should completely close our southern boarder. Based on one fact alone, El Presidente' Fox.... He is friendly with and openly trades with Fedel Castro. 'nuff said.

[firelizard]

I don't think relations with Cuba are a valid reason to close the border. The US conflict with Cuba is absurd imo.

[irax]

Sure... yeah cuz they were joking around when they were like

Cuba:hey russia whats up?
Russia:nothing much, I just wanna nuke America... BTW I have been meaning to talk to you about that?
Cuba:whats up?
Russia:Can I build missel silos(sp?) 30 miles away from the shores of florida on your porperty?
Cuba: HELL YEAH! I'll help you build it too
****AIM Connection Lost****


USA: soo Cuba i see your being a little friendly with Russia lately... I thought we were pals whats the deal?
Cuba: It's nothing personal, its just money.
USA: :'( I thought we could be friends
Cuba: we could never be friends.
****Cuba Discconnected at 12:23PM 03/08/1975****

... LOL! you get the point.

They would try to distroy us if they weren't dependant on the US dollar.

[firelizard]

The US would have taken over Cuba if they hadn't botched all their attempts..like the Bay of Pigs Invasion..
Besides, the US is more sour that Fidel nationalized American companies.

[irax]

so you'r saying we should finish that job too? actualy take castro out of power?

[Caoboy]

not that i am taking sides here...but at the same time that russia put missles in cuba, USA had missiles pointed at russia from turkey, and a few other outlining countries.

[firelizard]

Oh, no no. In fact I wish the US and Castro could get along! Cuba has a lot to offer in terms of exports and if the US supported Cuba, it would be easier for the country to get itself out of the hole it's pretty much gotten stuck in, after getting boycotted by the US and ditched by the USSR. Also, it would be easier for Canada to trade as well, since we trade with Cuba but the US gave itself the right to intervene with any American country dealing with Cuba.

Caoboy is also correct, the USA had put missiles in Turkey, aimed at Russia, so Russia had to retaliate, they were at "war" after all. Cuba is clearly communist but it was just a pawn in the Cold War.

[Dark Anghell]

Mexico and latin america as a whole has a lot of potential for trade, and US is definately trying to keep close contact with them.

I agree that uS needs to strenghen their US-Mexico border, also I just found out that Bush's plan would allow immigrants recieve worker's visa without much hassle. I think this is a great idea. As for illegal immigrants turning into gang members...they should be deported right away.

One thing that makes me mad...and this goes to legal immigrants as well: if you live in US you have to learn the language. I am an immigrant myself and I learned the language and some aspect of the culture since I am now an American. Then I go to China town (no disrespect, but this is how I feel) and 50% of the people there can't speak english! I mean come on...you chose to live in this country, so you should learn the language.

[stankubrick]

Irax: I don't know if you meant your reply specifically towrds me....

"If they want to work here they can get a working visa, if they want goto school they can get a student visa, if they want to start a business they can get licenses for that and apply for citizenship."

It's not that easy, hence the many illegal immigrants.

"The media wants you to think its just cherry pickers and janitors. "

The media also makes them out to be gangsters, criminals, drug dealers and terrorist.

"They try so hard to make it a race issue. It's not, but they want you think it is. But thats because the popular perception of an "Illegal" is that they are Mexican. Nope thats just the majority of them."

I never siad anything about race. I never said they were all good guys. All I was saying was it's not a black and white issue.

"What do all those people have in coman? THEY ARE TRYING TO BECOME LEGAL CITIZENS! Majority of these Illegals are not trying to become American, they are just trying to make money to better their lives in another country."

Exactly. Being illegal should not be the crime itself. The blame is focused on the immigrant raher than the immigration system itself.

[Caoboy]

"if you want to live in a country you should learn the language"

good point.

[irax]

Being illegal should not be the crime itself.

Please read this sentence out loud. If you don't laugh you are not paying attention.

They are not called barely legal citizens. They did not use the legal route to get here.



USA had missiles pointed at russia from turkey, and a few other outlining countries.

Yeah but houndreds of miles away. not a 30 minute drive.




"What do all those people have in coman? THEY ARE TRYING TO BECOME LEGAL CITIZENS! Majority of these Illegals are not trying to become American, they are just trying to make money to better their lives in another country."

Exactly. Being illegal should not be the crime itself. The blame is focused on the immigrant raher than the immigration system itself.



I'm sorry it came out wrong, let me refrase that

"...they are just trying to make money to better their lives in their home country...."

Yes that is applaudable but do it a way thats legal.

[Pagong]

One thing that makes me mad...and this goes to legal immigrants as well: if you live in US you have to learn the language. I am an immigrant myself and I learned the language and some aspect of the culture since I am now an American. Then I go to China town (no disrespect, but this is how I feel) and 50% of the people there can't speak english! I mean come on...you chose to live in this country, so you should learn the language.


I could not agree more with this.

I really hate it when immigrants dont even bother learning the language and expect you to learn thiers?
I myself just like you an immigrant...coming from The Philippines. But I knew even when I was young that I have to learn the language to properly communicate and live here. I just dont see why some dont even think about that.

And this applies to alot of immigrant nationalities....mexicans, korean, vietnamese, filipinos etc....

[stankubrick]

I think the whole "learn the language if you wanna live here" is just another way to vilify immigrants. It's such a generalization.

Some immigrants from countries like the Phillipines already have an advantage in that they regularly teach English in the Phillipines and even speak a half-English half-Tagalog hybrid on a regular basis. Also, learning another language when you're young is much easier. It must be a different experience for everyone... depending on the country they come from, stage of life they are in, and where in the US they settle.

And so what if someone can't speak English. This is America, they are free to do as they choose. They may never climb the social ladder, they may be limited in their choices and mobility, but that's their choice.

Everyday when I ride the bus to work, I see non-English speaking immigrants* on their way to work and being constructive. Conversely, on a daily basis, I see plenty of English speaking, legal citizens that sit on the corner and contribute nothing to society.

[irax]

vilify?

[stankubrick]

I really don't want to get into a deep debate on the world wide interweb, so I'll stop here. I just threw in my $.02 in the hopes of introducing a little empathy....

[Caoboy]

people can learn a language if they choose to. i, myself, am learning khmer (cambodian). if i can do it so can they right?

[TLontheDL]

As someone stated before, learning a language is easier for some than others.* Of course this does not give one an excuse to not learn it at all.* I agree that we all should learn to speak english.* It is, i think, a universal language??* Anyhow, a member stated that he/she went to some chinatown and said they didn't speak english.* Did this person not speak any english or spoke choppy english?* Most people who own business' do speak at least some kind of english...choppy but they probably do speak it.* Society/media make fun of asians or other "fob" minority in their effort to speak a nonnative language of theirs by mimic'ing choppy english, just like how we make fun of Japanese and their engrish VIP slogans.* I'd be afraid to speak english in school if I could not speak it well* :-\

The lack of english/no english is a minute (sp?) problem in our society anyway.* These people will give birth to american children (mexican american, african american, asian american,* etc.) who will most likely grow up speaking english.* Enough about language..* How do you say VIP in espanol?

[Dark Anghell]

Probably same as in english...VIP ;D I agree that it's harder for some poeple to adapt, especailly older people who are used to the "old ways" but as long as they are making an effort...that's all that counts.

Back to the immigrants being illegal. As long as Bush does not spend millions of dollars deporting these immigrants I have no problem with the plan. But if the government has to buy the plane tickets, etc. it will cost us, the taxpayers a good amount. So we might as well let these people stay, but make sure they register and have a working visa and have them pay some more taxes (federal) since there are I think 200 million illegal immigrants in the country that's a lot of extra money the gov't can use. Also we should tighten our border with mexico and patrol our ports a little bit better to prevent people from arriving in cargo containers. I think I'm pretty much done on this topic...unless something else pops into my head.

[tjg00]

I really dont understand what people dont understand about the phrase "ILLEGAL" immigrants. Illegal:crime as peanut butter:jelly( sorry, best example I could think of.) I dont mind people coming here to better their lives. As many have said before, this country was founded by immigrants,(although they werent illegal, so i dont know why there are comparisons.) But there are so many that just come here to make better money to spend where theyre from, or send it back, which brings the economy down, since the money being made here isnt being spent here.

And as for this idea of "illegals work the jobs no one else would". Well, correct me if i m wrong, but if the illegals werent here, wouldnt legal citizens have those jbs? I mean I'm sure this country flourished in the 40's-60's without any illegals having to do the work for us. This is partially americans fault. If we werent so lazy, there wouldnt be a needfor illegals to do the work. Landscaping, carpentry, backyard mechanics, etc., arent jobs that americans cant do. But people would rather save a buck and hire someone that they can rip off. So its partially our own fault.

Anyways, yes, I do think if you are here ILLEGALLY, then either try to become a valid us citizen,or be deported(though we all know that will never happen)

[uncle_el]

And as for this idea of "illegals work the jobs no one else would". Well, correct me if i m wrong, but if the illegals werent here, wouldnt legal citizens have those jbs? I mean I'm sure this country flourished in the 40's-60's without any illegals having to do the work for us. This is partially americans fault. If we werent so lazy, there wouldnt be a needfor illegals to do the work. Landscaping, carpentry, backyard mechanics, etc., arent jobs that americans cant do. But people would rather save a buck and hire someone that they can rip off. So its partially our own fault.


if you understand the history of this country, then you would understand that it was both disenfranchised african-americans (not even 80 years out of slavery, and still in an era of the reconstruction of the south, and before the civil rights movement) and illegal immigrants (do a google search on cesar chavez) doing the work in the 40s-60s.