vipstylecars.com recognized in this months super street

[allstar]

they have a vipstyle section, where they give props to the forums and whatnot.

pretty interested writeup. check it out.

[mdenoga]

Interesting. I'm going to pick up the issue. Funny I didn't know about it. :smiley:

[Brandicus]

For the first time since finding this site im going to buy an issue of super street! It should be entertaining at least...

I smell new members coming.

[allstar]

Interesting. I'm going to pick up the issue. Funny I didn't know about it. :smiley:

I was gonna call and tell u about it, but I didn't have much to talk about :p

[RaCinStylez]

I'll have to go and check it out.

[elpresidente]

Oh boy..we need a secret handshake STAT! Haha...

[allstar]

Oh boy..we need a secret handshake STAT! Haha...

llolololl

[hondaboi]

kool...congrats to vipstylecars.com!!!

[Kohinoor]

very nice!

[jbo]

This is cool and Im with Brandicus I can see a flood coming.lol

[Kuroikaze]

Going to barnes and nobles right now!

[firelizard]

I'll go pick it up....


I guess I gotta hurry up, there will be other Vip Inspired Proteges all of a suddenGive me a break

[jqnguyen8]

Yeah, I smell more members too!

[callaghan.]

oh crap...we're in for it.

[ap716]

saw the mag... loved the cars... interesting outfits the guy wore, chucks with blazer, dress shirt, and slacks.

[Pagong]

We have implemented a temporary halt in new member registration until things have mellowed out abit.

[callaghan.]

We have implemented a temporary halt in new member registration until things have mellowed out abit.

nice.


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7657/mugatufg1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[TLontheDL]

We have implemented a temporary halt in new member registration until things have mellowed out abit.

You are kidding me, right?

[Pagong]

No.......Yes! :)

[Brandicus]

Its the april issue huh.. :confused: Ive read through mays mag several times without finding anything except an add for sportmax's on an ugly xb labeled vip style :eek: am I going blind?

[SikNLow]

Its the april issue huh.. :confused: Ive read through mays mag several times without finding anything except an add for sportmax's on an ugly xb labeled vip style :eek: am I going blind?

no Brandicus it's the June issue with a red and black Evo on the cover and it says EVODELUXE on the front on top of the car!

[mdenoga]

6 page spread. I like this "nipple tassles without the boobies" or "VIP: the mafia equivalent of opening a money laundering storefront"... :p What I want to know is how come we're listed second as vip style enthusiasts website? Eh its cool. At least we were mentioned.

vipstylecars.com
members: 5,025 :light:

VS

autoluxurystyle.com
members: 19

[Wald GS]

Post pics!!

[KickEachVerse]

I really don't like that article. It's like they're clowning VIP lifestyle. Eh who cares what a mag says. VSC.com FTW!!

[Oyabun]

Hhhhmmmmmm. I smell a Tsunami along with Brandicus and JBO!!!:eek:

[SikNLow]

I guess I have mixed feelings over this since I'm coming from two different views on it. First I like the fact that the style is finally getting the attention it deserves and that it will hopefully fix some of what's wrong with the VIPculture (i.e. the fact that one man who owns the biggest VIP company gets to decide what is a VIP worthy platform which just happens to be the only cars he makes parts for already) and the elitist mindset by those who have been in the culture for a while. On the same note though it kills me that it will get all this attention since now every fool and his grandmother will water it down to knockoffs and badges (i.e. replacing "Type-R" for "Junction Produce") and people talking like they know what they are saying like we've been experiencing here lately. Either way time will separate the ones with a lot of heart from the posers and wannabes, I just hope it doesn't stop the OG's from helping out n00bs like me.... my car would be nowhere near where it is if it wasn't for a few of you who have helped guide me to make my own well informed decisions about my car.....Thanks and let's bunker down in prep for the storm that's going to barrel down on us! http://vipstylecars.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

[PANCAKES!]

I agree 100% with SikNLow!!!!

[callaghan.]

6 page spread. I like this "nipple tassles without the boobies" or "VIP: the mafia equivalent of opening a money laundering storefront"... :p What I want to know is how come we're listed second as vip style enthusiasts website? Eh its cool. At least we were mentioned.

vipstylecars.com
members: 5,025 :light:

VS

autoluxurystyle.com
members: 19



its called "friends in the industry" thats all magazines are man. its dumb.

[mdenoga]

Yup knew that already but just wanted to throw it out there. :p

[Pagong]

Was that John's old car? Or is that another Junction GS?

I thought john was the only one that has a complete Junction GS in Cali...I could be wrong though.

[DriftGirl]

I just got the mag but havent had time to read the article....

I do agree that people are starting to throw the term 'VIP' out there a bit much and labeling just about anything 'VIP' these days. :(

[jqnguyen8]

"Bippu's be flossing 20s and up, holmes."

I can imagine rapper wanna-be calling there cars VIP now. HAHA!

[MoWGLi]

Damn it, my magazine cam with only three pages. Thanks USPS.

[colione98]

I guess I have mixed feelings over this since I'm coming from two different views on it. First I like the fact that the style is finally getting the attention it deserves and that it will hopefully fix some of what's wrong with the VIPculture (i.e. the fact that one man who owns the biggest VIP company gets to decide what is a VIP worthy platform which just happens to be the only cars he makes parts for already) and the elitist mindset by those who have been in the culture for a while. On the same note though it kills me that it will get all this attention since now every fool and his grandmother will water it down to knockoffs and badges (i.e. replacing "Type-R" for "Junction Produce") and people talking like they know what they are saying like we've been experiencing here lately. Either way time will separate the ones with a lot of heart from the posers and wannabes, I just hope it doesn't stop the OG's from helping out n00bs like me.... my car would be nowhere near where it is if it wasn't for a few of you who have helped guide me to make my own well informed decisions about my car.....Thanks and let's bunker down in prep for the storm that's going to barrel down on us! http://vipstylecars.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif


I too have mixed feelings and have been in the game for just under 10 years since 1998 but am not as technical as some of you on this forum...

My first exposure was in may 1998 and had been running with the Dress up King as a Marine living in Okinawa, Japan and drifting in the ports and up in the mountains. Several members are still around and some have just left the scene all together.

I have plenty of albums full of vip and dress up king -cedrics and drifters but I am too lazy to scan them..

But my mixed feelings come into place where it is good for the culture but however as sik said, everyone is going try water it down and claim it as their original. Sometimes it's nice to be 10%! Being exclusive is sometimes good for the game... that is what sets you apart......

But in acutally, the culture will eventually cross over but it will be americanized and the true members will prevail...

It's just like any other game- you can always pin point the true artist from the wannabees....

[colione98]

oh, and let me add some points about exclusiveness....

- The fact that you have to purchase your monthly VIP MAGAZINE through a canadian website to help keep up with the latest trends and when you show your friends they are in absolute AWW....

- the fact that some of us that don't live in California or big inner cities are challenged to travel out of state to the korean and japanese mom/pop stores to find those hard to find gadgets and lighting accessories not sold at your local AUTO ZONE.....

- the fact that you have to conduct an enormous amount of research and $ave for that perfect and clean (non-aggressive) body kit not carried in the US.

and most of all all, the fact that you don't have to feel miserable going through the above measures cause there are others out there spending there hard earned cash in the same fashion- missing mortgage payments- only to dress up a car that will eventually be sold... Well, that was a little extreme but it does happen... :smiley:

....and I could go on forever...

Now, the non-serious members of this culture will find themselves going for the generic brands found locally...

But as I always stated- two people can wear the same out fit but at the end of the day, it's not the suit that makes you but the person within that suit having that creativity and originality to add flare to the suite which gives off that extreme presence. :thumbsup:

[mdenoga]

Want that John's old car? Or is that another Junction GS?

I thought john was the only one that has a complete Junction GS in Cali...I could be wrong though.

Thats another guy Kelvin Tohar not John's car. And John 'VIPStyleCars' is the only one with a complete Junction Produce GS (JP pinstripes, JP mirrors, etc). Practically everything JP made for the GS is on his car. :p

I couldn't find the link to the whole 6 page spread but here is the car that was featured. Congrats to Kelvin Tohar on the feature.

Kelvin Tohar's Lexus GS300
http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0706_2000_lexus_gs_300/

[firelizard]

Just bought the issue, read the article, wasn't impressed.
I know that Super Street is a bunch of clowns who can't take anything seriously, but they were kinda off ina few spots, namely "bippus be flossin' 20s and up holmes". Clearly they didn't look into Vip further than what has drifted into the states already. Real Vip cars have had wheels from 17 to 20, and more than 20 isn't that common is it?

[SikNLow]

Just bought the issue, read the article, wasn't impressed.
I know that Super Street is a bunch of clowns who can't take anything seriously, but they were kinda off ina few spots, namely "bippus be flossin' 20s and up holmes". Clearly they didn't look into Vip further than what has drifted into the states already. Real Vip cars have had wheels from 17 to 20, and more than 20 isn't that common is it?


Well as of late the trend has been towards a more bigger wheel 20+ and for the most part concave wheels as well, I envy all those people here who already rock them..... wish i could but not yet!!!! anyways, that quote hit a sore spot really, i'm mexican and to hear someone who isn't try to clown like that is kind of degrading really..... we've worked hard as mexican people to be associated with 13" daytons that are spaced out beyond the confines of the fenders to be so easily diluted into this whole dub world edition... give us our heritage back!!! we love our 13" daytons, 10" chrome chain steerings wheels and our furry dashes with leopard seats!!!!! and a big ole' pyramid with an aztec warrior carrying an aztec maiden to the top!!! .........


yeah this was all satirical and even though i am mexican i don't believe it was in good taste for them to write that.... just my 2¢

[firelizard]

What, writing "holmes"?

*eye roll*

It's just an expression.

[Caoboy]

yeah, but it's not taken lightly, just like 'ricer'.

anyways, at least the article had nice cars. i thought that was john's car at first, but then i noticed that his name was not mentioned lol.

i think every part on john's car is JP, minus the brake/air system?

and as long as we're mentioned second, maybe people won't come to our site as quickly, and that first mentioned place will be the place where people go to talk 'autoluxury'. i guess it sounds more luxurious and professional and 'baller' and COOL, than vipstylecars.com. oh well. more for us!

i have my fabulous rims, and my coilovers, all legitimate items. people will buy american brands that are labled 'vip' and rims that are chrome, and be mislead down good ole america's franchise/capitalist moneymaking policy of 'make cheap parts and sell them for more!'.

too bad this is one game, where you have to pay to play. you cant knock off custom rims and have them look as good, you can't have the fitment of authentic parts for 400 dollars, and you can have a fusa and call yourself vip.

it's fine with me when people come in here and try to talk like they are big and bad and know their shit.
but walk your talk.
if you don't, we'll be ready to school you.
if you fake the funk, and try to get away with it, we'll know. and we'll come for you, one by one. we'll make you wish you spent your money right in the first place, you'll become the outcast.

only a handful of people have their cars done up right. i've got my stance ready, that's number one in the game.

everybody comes on this forum talking 'oh yeah, i want jp this and jp that, or i'm getting aimgain/boldworld/ blah blah blah,' but i don't see it happening.

vip needs to stay true to it's roots, and that means authentic. no knock-offs, nothing.

[BrianStyles]

too bad this is one game, where you have to pay to play. you cant knock off custom rims and have them look as good, you can't have the fitment of authentic parts for 400 dollars, and you can have a fusa and call yourself vip.

it's fine with me when people come in here and try to talk like they are big and bad and know their shit.
but walk your talk.
if you don't, we'll be ready to school you.
if you fake the funk, and try to get away with it, we'll know. and we'll come for you, one by one. we'll make you wish you spent your money right in the first place, you'll become the outcast.

only a handful of people have their cars done up right. i've got my stance ready, that's number one in the game.

everybody comes on this forum talking 'oh yeah, i want jp this and jp that, or i'm getting aimgain/boldworld/ blah blah blah,' but i don't see it happening.

vip needs to stay true to it's roots, and that means authentic. no knock-offs, nothing.

you made me cry with happiness hearing those words. :cries:

I used to be one of those guys saying I was going to get a Wald kit, Work rims, etc. but I ended up Junction Produce and Club Linea. :thumbsup:

Only thing I gotta work on is my stance and wheel fitment now. Yay for VIP!

[abernfitch82]

Just so you guys know, I came onto this site before that Super Street article.:p But in all seriousness, I came onto this site to learn more about what makes a car 'VIP' to begin with. I didn't come on here to learn how to VIP style one of on my Corrados. I've always been into moddifying/customizing my cars. I never half-assed any of the cars I've ever worked on and when I fully understand what makes these cars VIP is when I want to start customizing it. It might be a month or two after I get my GS400/430 or it could be a year, but I don't want to be some poser who comes along and ruins this unique lifestyle.

Sorry for talking their for a little while.:smiley:

[JDMJim]

kicker is that now those will be the guys that do the regular "cleanup" at the shows when the car is not really what VIP was originally envisioned in Japan. It frustrates me, but what can we do? American public(including me) are not as rich or well off as Japan sometimes. So that's when Pep Boys can start selling VIP lighting and stuff, cuz it's now the new bandwagon as of June Super Street. Can't wait to see a VIP Escort with VIP hubcaps. just wait, VIP will be ruined just like drift cars and JDM build cars.

[Caoboy]

yeah, and that's why when they come here, we kick them to the ground. i personally feel that if you are faking it, you need to be taught, and taught hard. if you don't come back after that lesson, who cares. one less faker we have to worry about.

[sonicadio]

kicker is that now those will be the guys that do the regular "cleanup" at the shows when the car is not really what VIP was originally envisioned in Japan. It frustrates me, but what can we do? American public(including me) are not as rich or well off as Japan sometimes. So that's when Pep Boys can start selling VIP lighting and stuff, cuz it's now the new bandwagon as of June Super Street. Can't wait to see a VIP Escort with VIP hubcaps. just wait, VIP will be ruined just like drift cars and JDM build cars.

afraid to, but i sense that it gonna happen like wut u said :(

[smallwonder809]

Alot of people down where I'm from are too broke as shiat to do anything VIP. Just give it 2-3 years and there will be a big market of knock-off and imitation stuff. Then everyone will jump on the wagon.

Let's keep this style and forum on the DL yo..

[JDMGalant]

There is already numerous knock off vip style products available, especially wheels, like the Sportmax Vip style look. But I just finished reading this issue. I was more interested in the magazine for the Datsun car cause I have one sitting in my garage. Im shocked that VIP was covered. I myself dont have a VIP car, but I have been interested in it for ideas to incorportate into my Galant (I know, far from VIP). But now seeing the issue, yup, its the next band wagon (but you guys have been saying it for a long time). Well, atleast as they mentioned, many numerous cars will have the VIP touch. Not many can do the true VIP platform due to the base price for the car itself. Then the price of products are way out of many peoples leauge. But I see it as a good thing. Im sick of people w/ rice rockets. When people start getting into the subtle touches of VIP style on their cars, maybe, just maybe their wont be so many fugly cars out there, and maybe they'll just cruise, rather then street race. Thats a positive outcome, when they bag their cars, they may drive just a little slower....

[Caoboy]

no, they'll still be ricers, in civics, thinking that vip parts are new race parts. ebay will sell the same crap that they always do, yet, now, instead of calling if 'JDM' they'll call it 'VIP'. retards will always be retards, and buy the same ebay crap, thinking it's 'jdm' and 'vip'.

[Pagong]

There is a quote in SuperStreet that made me scratch my head...

"Bippus be flossing 20s and up, homes." eh!

Watch out for the peopple with 20" Neepers to say they're Bippus...woo woo.

[BrianStyles]

There is a quote in SuperStreet that made me scratch my head...

"Bippus be flossing 20s and up, homes." eh!

Watch out for the peopple with 20" Neepers to say they're Bippus...woo woo.

ok, now I officially need to get this issue and see this for myself. :mad:

kicker is that now those will be the guys that do the regular "cleanup" at the shows when the car is not really what VIP was originally envisioned in Japan. It frustrates me, but what can we do? American public(including me) are not as rich or well off as Japan sometimes. So that's when Pep Boys can start selling VIP lighting and stuff, cuz it's now the new bandwagon as of June Super Street. Can't wait to see a VIP Escort with VIP hubcaps. just wait, VIP will be ruined just like drift cars and JDM build cars.

nooooooo...don't say that. :sad:

[aftermathacura]

yes maybe vip will be the next bandwagon.... but just like everything else that has come along. the ones that are true to their passion of working on cars will rise above the fakes.

[Big Steve]

i think it's great that the site got recognition. but needless to say, this will be like the "jdm" scene. i experienced it with my honda when i was all "jdm" and will be the same with the "vip" scene. so just do what you wanna do to your car to stay "true to form" and leave the rest be. :thumbsup:

[TransformCelsior]

but by then you'll have the clipped on bodykits, bondoed up outer panels, and bent up VIP Axis wheels.

and by then the true to form VIP enthusiasts will have caught up with the refined VIP look of today in Japan.

I had a chance to see VIPcar magazine from 2001 and that was the sh i t that most of this forum is into now!! very outdated !

i think it's great that the site got recognition. but needless to say, this will be like the "jdm" scene. i experienced it with my honda when i was all "jdm" and will be the same with the "vip" scene. so just do what you wanna do to your car to stay "true to form" and leave the rest be. :thumbsup:

[Damicci]

Finally got a chance to read it. Yeah I am slow. Anybody else notice the large number of typos? Like the article was pushed to be finished quickly.

Anyway I am with everyone else who is on the fence about the article. Some info just seemed wrong but eh what do I know. I kinda like the the fact that I won't have to do too much explaining on what direction I aim going with my car. Also for those people who feel VIP is just a JDM label for what American celebrities have been doing since the early 90's, will hopefully see the differences. Some are similar but the main thing is stressing "modesty and elegance." I like those terms.

[VIPStyleCars]

biggest typo that stood out to me was the website for Junction Produce...

for sure its NOT http://www.junctionproduce.com :eek: I'm surprised after all these years, that lady has that site up still

but more http://www.junction-produce.co.jp and http://www.junction-produce.co.jp/english

[Xotic sC]

The reason why there are platforms is of course to keep it exclusive. Yea everybody has a vip car if there were no 'regulations' per say. What do you guys expect? Just get a VIP car so you can call it one or you can just modify your own car VIPstyle and call it just that, a VIPstyled or influenced car.

It all seems pretty simple to me.

[BrianStyles]

biggest typo that stood out to me was the website for Junction Produce...

for sure its NOT http://www.junctionproduce.com :eek: I'm surprised after all these years, that lady has that site up still

but more http://www.junction-produce.co.jp and http://www.junction-produce.co.jp/english

dude, how much did Super Street screw up with? first, they pointed out "we be flossing 20" rims and up" and now they give the wrong Junction Produce website? Those dudes need to wake up over there before they get whacked upside the head. those kinds of shit mistakes piss me off and they shouldn't happen.

[estima_couture]

haha @ almost every "VIP" car in that issue having JP Scaras. must've all went in on a group buy!

[Pion]

It seems some of those typo's may be welcome if you are hoping people don't figure out what VIP cars are all about. "20" and up"... Ok. Let them think 24's are VIP. It'll definitely make their cars different from yours.

Also, whoever it was above that said VIP hubcaps made me laugh really hard at my desk at work. Oops. The idea of 19.99 dollar hubcaps at Walmart that look like Fabulous Profounds immediately jumped into my mind. LOL. It'll never happen. Hubcaps with dish would be hilarious.

[Dominik]

haha, i'm pretty sure the term is "all grown up", not "all grows up"

Is it just a bunch of teenagers writing that mag? Surely they would hire an editor who is literate?

[firelizard]

haha, i'm pretty sure the term is "all grown up", not "all grows up"

Is it just a bunch of teenagers writing that mag? Surely they would hire an editor who is literate?

Close - they appear to be a bunch of goofs

[VIPStyleCars]

haha @ almost every "VIP" car in that issue having JP Scaras. must've all went in on a group buy!


Most of the cars that were featured were either Falken's cars that they were using for Demo purposes or actual JP Demo cars from Japan.

It was mainly pushed towards Falken's push into the VIP tire market and that they are working close w/ JP.

As for that picture they posted as staff? I have NO clue who they are. but oh well

[callaghan.]

whoever over there thought itd be cool to write

"bippus be flossin 20's and up holmes"

needs to get shot.

[Junction]

As for the picture they posted as staff, they were staff at one of our boutique :)
Not staff at our head office. You might get a chance to see them at Tokyo Auto Salon.
And of course, to see me :D

Most of the cars that were featured were either Falken's cars that they were using for Demo purposes or actual JP Demo cars from Japan.

It was mainly pushed towards Falken's push into the VIP tire market and that they are working close w/ JP.

As for that picture they posted as staff? I have NO clue who they are. but oh well

[aristo93]

As for the picture they posted as staff, they were staff at one of our boutique :)
Not staff at our head office. You might get a chance to see them at Tokyo Auto Salon.
And of course, to see me :D

Junction how is your feel on the Super Street write up? Dont you think they were a little careless and not to informative about the Vip scene, almost like they rushed into it will all the mistakes and bad humor like they didint even reserch what they wrote.

[Junction]

Junction how is your feel on the Super Street write up? Dont you think they were a little careless and not to informative about the Vip scene, almost like they rushed into it will all the mistakes and bad humor like they didint even reserch what they wrote.

I was feeling the same thing... it seems like they rushed, and a little careless about the VIP scene....
Oh well, they care more for tuning scene and not VIP scene I guess...

[Mjfan12]

Jeez, some of you guys are taking this thing way too seriously. We all start from 0.

anyways Im a performance guy first, but I also want another car thats nice and comfortable for daily driving duties.

But Im not, nor ever will be as extreme as some of you. Im not wasting 3 grand on some Japanese rims when you can get good quality for much less.

Whats this EXE style exactly?

If it means a clean car with a little bling, then that more my style.

My idea of the perfect luxury sedan is HID headlights, LED tails, Tinted glass, Nice rims and tires, and a little drop. Maybe a lip.

And definately a full in car entertainment setup.

[aristo93]

Jeez, some of you guys are taking this thing way too seriously. We all start from 0.

anyways Im a performance guy first, but I also want another car thats nice and comfortable for daily driving duties.

But Im not, nor ever will be as extreme as some of you. Im not wasting 3 grand on some Japanese rims when you can get good quality for much less.

Whats this EXE style exactly?

If it means a clean car with a little bling, then that more my style.

My idea of the perfect luxury sedan is HID headlights, LED tails, Tinted glass, Nice rims and tires, and a little drop. Maybe a lip.

And definately a full in car entertainment setup.

Sounds like your into the Dub or Lug style which is cool, but this is a Vip style fourm and some of the stuff SS was saying just isnt this style. You also gotta remember vip style originated from Japan so there are alot of us that will get the 3 grand Japanese wheels and wont settle for anything less, just because its avalable here in the states, why be like everyone else?

[firelizard]

I don't get why people say "ooh man, Vip wheels are so expensive, that's not for me, you're all crazy" when Asantis are like 5 grand, and you can get JDM wheels in fine condition used, for about a grand if you know where to look. Even if you refinish used wheels it's still cheaper than a lot of American DUB wheels.

[TransformCelsior]

I don't know why people would pay so much for Asanti, ashanti, domani, armani, barfani, corsini or whatever they call it today.

just buy the cheap chrome 20" on ebay, they all look the same from a foot away.



I don't get why people say "ooh man, Vip wheels are so expensive, that's not for me, you're all crazy" when Asantis are like 5 grand, and you can get JDM wheels in fine condition used, for about a grand if you know where to look. Even if you refinish used wheels it's still cheaper than a lot of American DUB wheels.

[firelizard]

I don't know why people would pay so much for Asanti, ashanti, domani, armani, barfani, corsini or whatever they call it today.

just buy the cheap chrome 20" on ebay, they all look the same from a foot away.
That is easy to answer: why would people pay so much for Fabulous, Riverside, Work, etc. when you can buy cheap imitations on eBay?
(okay, so I can usually tell knock-offs from more than a foot away thanks to this board, but you know what I mean:smiley:)
I'm a fan of people supporting the legitimate companies before the bandwagon imitation crafters, even for styles I'm not into.

[SikNLow]

I don't get why people say "ooh man, Vip wheels are so expensive, that's not for me, you're all crazy" when Asantis are like 5 grand, and you can get JDM wheels in fine condition used, for about a grand if you know where to look. Even if you refinish used wheels it's still cheaper than a lot of American DUB wheels.


this is my pet peeve as well, how can you come to a forum, read a bit and browse of course before joining, and then post something like that? this isn't the place for those people, everyone here who is an OG, or a true enthusiast, wouldn't think twice about those japanese wheels regardless of the amount, if they are used or new or even if they are damaged they will at least be better than what is on the market currently here in the states. :signdammit: